Lands at Risk Comments

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lcarreau

lcarreau - May 17, 2017 12:04 am - Voted 10/10

Excellent ...

I've heard of this. It has to do with the coal and uranium trapped
beneath the layers -- like Utah doesn't have enough coal and uranium mines already existing upon their private lands.

Greed ... it keeps on growing with the times. But fortunately,
one's future only comes one day at a time.

Fleshj27

Fleshj27 - May 31, 2017 4:42 pm - Voted 10/10

Counterpoint

I'm probably an outlier given the Summitpost population, but both Grand Staircase and Bears Ears rate a review as it is highly probable they were designated as political punishment on the people of Utah. Both President Clinton and Obama made the designation primarily because "they could" without congress. That is not to say the National Monuments should be obliterated, strip mined, and/or rented out to Burning Man; I'm saying their designation should be reviewed.

Because each these areas are individually bigger than the State of Delaware, the National Monument designation under the Antiquities Act may not be appropriate for the entire areas. The Federal government has numerous other options that may serve to include Wilderness Area, Conservation Area, straight BLM, Recreation Area, Etc...and/or some combination with the National Monument designation. The complete designation should serve locals, environmentalists, Indians, the state and the Republic as a whole. My gut is the National Landmark designation was made of the fly with the clock ticking on the respective presidencies; so, yeah, we probably need to take a look....

Scott

Scott - Aug 12, 2017 11:34 pm - Voted 10/10

Re: Counterpoint

most agree that Obama went too far

Most agree? Do you have any proof of this? I am willing to bet that most people would support the monument.

Perhaps it should be put to vote and let the American people decide.

Scott

Scott - Aug 14, 2017 7:52 am - Voted 10/10

Re: Counterpoint

So your problem is not with the monument, but who created it?

Out of curiosity, how much time have you spent there? Do you even know the area?

fatdad

fatdad - Jun 1, 2017 11:48 pm - Hasn't voted

Nonsense

Fleshj27's post is just that. The notion that a presevation designation is "punishment" is, in a word, delusional. These are rare and unique areas that warrant protection. Remember that the designations made by Pres. Bush are also under review. Were those established as "punishment" as well?

Moreover, your legal analysis of the Antiquities Act is nothing more than speculation on so,ething other than the law you calim to be interpreting. The size of the monument is irrelevant to the whether the President has the authority to designate a monument, not whether the area is worthy of protection. Critics of Bears Ears ignore that the Native American tribes had been working for c. 10 yrs. to preserve the area. How can those efforts be deemed as "last minute"?

If anything, the criticism of Bears Ears is proof that conservatives who oppose the designations have abandoned their logic and reason in favor of conservative policies which do not serve the general public.

Fleshj27

Fleshj27 - Jun 7, 2017 2:51 pm - Voted 10/10

Re: Nonsense

Wow. That was violent. Anger issues?

I suppose I could bore you with the details of the five-year negotiation between all the stakeholders to include the Native American tribes on a grand bargain for Utah public land use (which addressed preservation of Bears Ears), but it appears you have your mind made up. To avoid any additional brilliance, I will stipulate that your superior intellect and manly virtue signaling has completely convinced me of the rightness of your position. What would us silly Utah rubes do without California lawyers to guide us?

We'll have to see how this all shakes out but, watching the politics, I'm thinking they'll end up keeping all of the Indian petroglyph sites & virgin lands as National Landmark areas (around 60 million acres), designate another 60 million acres as National Conservation areas, and leave 15 million acres as BLM to allow access to school trust lands and leases to ranchers. If they really want to get cute, leave the Grand Staircase alone "in the intrests of fairness", toss in Cleveland- Lloyd as a National Landmark and upgrade Dinosaur to a National Park. Work in a couple guarantees about not issuing any more presidential proclamations and the deal should sate the locals & Indians, slap the Blues and allow the Reds to talk "commitment to preservation" with a straight face.

On the other hand, once everyone is out for blood, all bets go off the table.

*** As an aside, even well framed arguments lose impact when you fail to spell check. Spell check is easily accomplished, takes mere seconds and avoids embarrassing whatever public university issued you your degree.....

fatdad

fatdad - Jun 13, 2017 2:00 pm - Hasn't voted

Re: Nonsense

No anger; just counterargument. If that is upsetting to you perhaps you should not offer your opinion in a public forum. Commentary invites rebuttal. More delusions of persecution it appears.

If you had facts to discuss, you are welcome to do that. However, since your reply was mostly ad hominem argument about my supposedly believing you to be a "rube", I'm presuming you don't have any. You haven't really discussed why you believe the designation is improper/unfair, etc. I can understand that you might not approve for your own personal reasons, but you've declined to state what they are other than you believe the locals are being "punished".

Finally, the whole spell check thing is a straw man. You understand that people often reply on cell phones or tablets, where typing can be more challenging. If you make the argument, like many conservative trolls on social media, that any counterargument is undercut by typos, you have more or less conceded that you do not have a legitimate response to the post. I'm not embarrassed by any inadvertent typos; I'm embarrassed for you that you believe that's a convincing rebuttal.

Klenke

Klenke - Aug 14, 2017 12:22 pm - Hasn't voted

Re: Nonsense

Your both rite; you're booth not right. There, I said. It.

nickmech

nickmech - Jul 9, 2017 4:19 pm - Hasn't voted

Nonsense

Well said, Fatdad.

Fleshj27

Fleshj27 - Apr 10, 2018 5:08 pm - Voted 10/10

God bless america.

My apologies on the long delay in responding but can only excuse myself in being overtaken by events. My job readying the nation's engines of destruction and preparing the military for war has left me jaded on the outcome for Bear's Ears. When your position description involves "genocide" the fate of two million windswept acres in a remote Western State become somewhat less important in the grand scheme of things.

That being said, it would curish not to respond in kind, though my heart is no longer in it; once finished, from where the sun now stands, I will troll no more. Okay. Here it goes...

Way to dance with All the Colors of the Wind, Pocahontas! You developed a coherent argument, hit every single talking point outsiders bring in, all while spelling every single word correctly. Hang that public education diploma with pride!

Allow me to give a token statist arguement and then I'll shut it down. Two-thirds of Utah is federal land for which we receive the princely sum of $35m a year. For grins, grab a California map, draw a line just south of SF and tell the good people of Cali they'll draw no revenue from any lands south of the line. That is reality we deal with. This high handed action grates heavily on the people of Utah and to have two Blue presidents knock out State-sized holes in our state without our input speaks more of pandering and less to our welfare. You can see why we get emotional.

Amazingly, it looks like corrective resizing fits both the arguments and is something we can live with. That's not to say that I wouldn't strip mine Yellowstone National Park if I thought it would buy the Republic another day. I am however slightly surprised by the Trump Administration's restraint. If I was a xenophobic asshat I would be punching Delaware-sized monuments up and down the Blue Coasts and set the environmentalists against each other and thus protecting my constituency.

All that being said I'm glad I live in a nation where trolling is still the national sport and differing views can go on pointless Crusades on third rate websites. God Bless America.

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